I have observed MANY individuals in Scientology who became MORE criminal AFTER
"going Clear and/or OT". And most of the individuals I wrote about below were
My answer to wgert:
In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>, email@example.com says...
>Yo, bigmouth. You know what that's called: Finding fault with others.
>If you had all that insight dope on these characters' out ethics, why
>didn't you do something about it? Then everybody could've been helped.
>Instead, you didn't do nothin'. All you do is blame blame blame.
I don't know if you were calling me a "bigmouth", or whether your
name-calling was directed towards Steve.
The purpose of my post was not to find fault. It was to illustrate
the lie that "Scientology benefits" individuals.
My point is that I have known MANY individuals who "went Clear
and/or OT", but they were criminal after they were supposedly
"cleared of their abberations", criminal tendencies, etc. In
fact, I have observed MANY individuals in Scientology who became
MORE criminal AFTER "going Clear and/or OT". And most of the
individuals I wrote about below were *SO members*! They are supposed
to be the "elite". They are *supposed* to be "putting ethics in"
on the planet! They are supposed to be setting an example! And
therein is the REALLY FRIGHTENING ASPECT of your cult, wgert!
You also asked why I "didn't do something about it" if I had "all
that insight [sic] dope on these characters' out ethics"! Then you
state that "then everybody could've been helped". Next you accused
me "of doin' nothing" but "blame, blame, blame"!
First off, I would like to say that you, wgert, are exhibiting
irrational behaviour. You make incorrect assumptions! To wit:
1) I DID DO SOMETHING ABOUT ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS' CRIMES. I
shall detail exactly what I did below.
2) I DIDN'T DO "NOTHING", as you incorrectly assume.
3) I didn't just "blame, blame, blame".
>And why didn't you do anything? Because of similar overts of your own.
>You know that and a fair bunch of others on ars know that - even
>though some may deny it.
Now you are merely forwarding an accusation drilled into your
head by your blind and robotic loyalty to Hubbard's writings.
By your own "logic", you are a bigot since you accuse others of
being bigots. But then I suspect you believe *you* are "right",
and I am "wrong" because I am a critic, and you are not.
You incorrectly "evaluate" that I have "similar overts" because
I have told of crimes committed by Scientologists "in good standing"
at the time they committed their crimes.
Yet if I *fail* to disclose knowledge of a crime, then according to
Hubbard I "have mutual out ruds", and I would also be in violation
of numerous Scientology policies pertaining to "ethics". Reference
OEC Volumes 0 and 1, HCO PL "Staff Member Reports", etc. etc. (I don't
need to give you the policies; you already know them.)
>> Some interesting observations about a a few scientologists can be
>> read below. Thanks Warrior. I just want to chime in here and
>> state that I have also seen evidence of similar behavior.
>> The treasury sec at the Phoenix org back around '76 was removed
>> from his post for a long list of transgressions, including
>> theft and just about any other financial crime imaginable. I didn't
>> believe he was guilty then and I still guess he was innocent of
>> all crimes, except for one. That one crime that he probably did
>> commit was to cover for the current Commanding Officer (Executive
>> Director), Doreen Casey. She set him up to take the blame.
>> Doreen was an insane OT VII who was comm eved and convicted of
>> stealing the org's money. When scientology ethics wants to make
>> an example of someone, as was done with Doreen, the charges are
>> trumped up enormously. The findings are published on "goldenrod",
>> and posted on the staff bulletin board.
>> It seemed like everyone was at some time humiliated with a goldenrod.
>> The charges were hilarious, but seemed so serious at the time. Even
>> public people could be charged with "crimes and high crimes". Remember
>> that person charged with discrediting scientology by having an epileptic
>> seizure in public? scienos charge each other with stuff like
>> "endangering an org" for having downstats, for not selling
>> enough books or failing to route sufficient bodies into the shop.
>> It would all be very funny if people weren't hurt, or ruined.
>> Steve Whitlatch
>>In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Warrior <email@example.com> writes:
>>> Here are some of my observations about Scientologists:
>>> One "OTV" I knew had a business and declared bankruptcy. He gave
>>> LOTS of money to the cult of Scientology for his "Bridge". This same
>>> "OTV" routinely LIED to his own salespeople as a standard operating
>>> procedure. He LIED repeatedly, month after month, telling them their
>>> commission checks were "in the mail" when in fact they had not even
>>> been sent. This same "OTV" even asked me to tell his LIES for him!
>>> I refused to lie for him.
>>> This same "OTV" committed insurance fraud by overstating the value
>>> of a package of merchandise which was stolen at LA International
>>> Airport. And he actually collected an insurance payment on this
>>> fraudulent claim!
>>> This same "OTV" filed a FRAUDULENT return with the County of Los
>>> Angeles. I know this to be true since I had prepared a correct and
>>> accurate return for his property taxes on his business corporation.
>>> He didn't like my return because it told the truth, and he didn't
>>> want to pay what he really owed. So he ordered me to change figures
>>> on the return. I refused. He filed a FRAUDULENT property tax return
>>> with figures made up from thin air (which were a mere fraction of the
>>> correct figures) because it would "save" him money!
>>> This same "OTV" asked me to prepare and file FALSE federal and
>>> state income tax returns for his corporation. This was because he
>>> ACTUALLY owed over $90,000 in combined federal and state income taxes,
>>> and he didn't want to have to pay the true amounts owed!
>>> When I refused to participate in his FRAUDULENT acts, he began to
>>> realize I could not be manipulated. I gave my notice of intent to
>>> work for him until a replacement could be found for my position. He
>>> "fired" me the next day, saying that he would "find someone who will
>>> file" a FRAUDULENT claim for him!
>>> This same "OTV" is still active in Scientology.
OK. Here's what I did with regards to this "OT".
1) I applied "earlier ethics gradients" with my boss by "noticing
non-optimum behaviour and commenting on it" to _him directly_,
despite the personal danger to me and my job, with the hopes that
he would "knock off his personal out-ethics and get straight".
When "two-way communication" failed to handle the situation, I:
2) I wrote a "knowledge report" to the MAA at Flag. The "OT" was
at Flag at the time I wrote the report. Even the "OT's" wife
was aware of the crimes her husband was committing. She even asked
other staff at her business to write reports on her husband's "out
ethics" so he could "get handled" while he was at Flag.
(Note: The Flag MAA told me over the phone that my boss' "out ethics"
would NOT get handled during his stay at Flag to do his "Ls". This
too is a violation of "tech" and "policy" of Scientology. A person
is not supposed to get "auditing" over "overts", "withholds" and/or
"continuing overts" or "present time problems", etc.)
3) As I always did, I _refused_ to participate in any criminal
activity (collusion and tax fraud) with my boss, so as to keep my
own hands "clean".
4) I continued to do my job honestly and to comply with the laws
of the state of California, the county of Los Angeles and the United
States with regards to taxes and bookkeeping requirements.
5) I prepared _honest_ and _accurate_ returns for the corporation.
My boss however, continued to bring pressure upon me to engage in
criminal acts, to wit, he told me point blank to prepare:
a) a fradulent property tax return,
b) a fraudulent state income tax return,
c) a fraudulent federal income tax return,
d) a false set of accounting records, e.g., income and espense
reports, profit and loss statements and other false documents
pertaining to the corporate financial affairs.
I refused to commit any illegal acts.
In fact, I prepared an accurate property tax return and gave it to
him for his signature. He ordered me to change the amounts reported
to numbers with no factual basis. This was ordered *simply to
lower the amount of tax he would have to pay; this was because he
didn't want to pay the actual amount owed because it was "too much"
(meaning he didn't have the money, and he didn't want to have to
figure out how to raise the cash necessary to pay the actual tax
Despite the fact that he was the "boss" and was of a "higher case
level" than I, I suggested a solution to raising the necessary
funds to pay the bill. My solution was to hold an inventory
liquidation sale. He didn't like my solution.
Instead, he ordered me to change the numbers on the tax return.
When I refused to go along with his illegal order, HE CHANGED
the amounts arbitrarily AND FILED THE RETURN HIS WAY.
I shook my head and filed MY correctly prepared return in the
property tax accounts payable file with a note stating that
"This is the correct return as prepared by me" and I signed it.
With regards to the state and federal income tax returns, I spoke
with my boss' CPA at the all-Scientology member firm Greenberg &
Jackson. My boss' CPA there informed me that they "could not file
a tax return that was knowingly fraudulent" since to do so would
involve the firm in criminal activity.
I could NOT get my boss to be honest! He continued to violate the
laws of the land with regards to taxes. When I informed him that I
would NOT file a fraudulent income tax return, he told me that he
"would find someone who would"!!
It was at that point I gave my notice of intent to work for him
until the end of the month. I offered to do this solely to enable
him to have time to hire a replacement for my position of Controller.
He "fired" me the next day.
>>> Another "OTVII" I knew on staff in the Sea Org repetedly committed
>>> unauthorized expenditures. Eventually I was ordered to withhold money
>>> from his pay (according to the policies - FOs and HCO PLs - on the
>>> subject) to repay the organization for his violation of financial
>>> policy resulting in an unauthorized expenditure. I complied to the
>>> order reluctantly. Upon this staff member's realization that his pay
>>> had been docked $5 towards repaying the unauthorized expenditure,
>>> this same staff member stormed in my office and physically assaulted
>>> me, shoving me backwards over my desk, injuring my back.
>>> This same "OTVII" is still active in Scientology.
This "OT" is named Kenny Shapiro. He was the Chief Body Registrar
at ASHO Day. I have seen mention of him with regards to an "Order,
Query Of" he wrote pertaining to the loss of "family time" in PAC.
The order is mentioned at the FACTNet site.
What I did about Kenny's "out-ethics" is to write reports. If you
ask to see his "ethics files", wgert, you will find numerous reports
written by me (and many others) on Kenny's financial crimes. One I
recall is a report on the illegal discounts Kenny used to give to
Scientologists. Per policy by Hubbard, giving "cutative price"
discounts is a "High Crime" and a "Suppressive Act" in Scientology.
One such report I remember well is the illegal discount he gave to
Steve Surrey when Steve was the ED of the Salt Lake City Mission.
John Bostrum, James Chapman, David Pyatt, Frank Benjamin, and a
host of other Scientologists and ex-Scientologists remember this
Kenny and John Bostrum used to actually gets into fights over
Kenny's financial crimes in Scientology. No one ever took any
effective correction action on Kenny to get him to stop committing
What I did about Kenny was to continue to "write him up" (write
"knowledge reports") and to write "cramming orders" on him.
Eventually Kenny was sent to the RPF, although it was not as a
result of things I did, as far as I know.
When Kenny came off the RPF, he was meek in comparison to how he
had been previously. I have seen Fishman state that Kenny was
a course supervisor at ASHO Day. To my recall, that is correct.
>>> Another "OTIIIX" I knew was the Public MAA in the Sea Org. As
>>> such, his position was responsible for "handling" the "ethics" of
>>> persons on "courses" and on "auditing lines". One Saturday afternoon,
>>> while on "libs", this same "OTIIIX" got extremely intoxicated at a
>>> "public" person's house. This "public" person's name is Maggie, and
>>> she was actively on "course" at ASHO. After awhile, the Public MAA
>>> passed out on the sofa in Maggie's living room. While he was sleeping,
>>> he urinated in his pants, soaking through and onto Maggie's sofa, causing a
>>> gross scene in front of a "public" member -- the same "public" member
>>> (Maggie) he had previously done an "ethics handling" on at ASHO!
>>> This "public" person is still active in Scientology, as is another
>>> person (and Sea Org member) named John McGurk, who witnessed this
>>> embarrassing incident.
This Sea Org MAA "blew staff" after the "Darch period" in Scientology.
"Darch" is another story, another time. Ask Dan Locke at ASHO about
"Darch" and Bill Franks' mission to ASHO.
And, according to John McGurk's mother and father (J.J. McGurk), John
is still in Scientology in LA. And the "public person", Maggie, is too.
>>> Another Sea Org member, and Scientology "Clear" I knew was the
>>> Bookstore Officer. As such, he earned hundreds of dollars in commissions
>>> on the sales of books, meters, packs, insignias, etc.
>>> As you may be aware, when an individual earns enough money, he/she
>>> is required to have income taxes withheld, according to the current
>>> IRS rules dependent upon the level of the earnings and the information
>>> claimed on the individual's form W-4. Indeed, from my position on staff
>>> in the Sea Org, I was responsible for complying with all legal require-
>>> ments pertaining to tax laws and their administration. As such, I had
>>> the job of withholding taxes from staff members' pay when they earned
>>> enough to warrant such.
>>> This particular Sea Org member who held the position of Bookstore
>>> Officer didn't want to comply with the law. When he arrived in my office
>>> on a particular Friday evening to collect his pay, he was very upset
>>> that I had withheld taxes from his pay. His solution was to GRAB a few
>>> hundred dollars from my payroll cash box and TAKE MORE than had actually
>>> been withheld from his pay in taxes.
>>> By the way, this same Bookstore Officer, Jim Williams, had been
>>> awarded the status of Kha Khan for his "repeated upstats" in book sales.
>>> When I discovered he had been falsifying book sales by writing phony
>>> invoices with false names and non-existent addresses, he was removed from
>>> Even though this same person had committed a suppressive act and was
>>> in a lower condition, the Commanding Officer, Midshipman Alan Prager
>>> actually approved of and ordered Jim Williams being *re-posted* on income
>>>"lines" as an expeditor for Framk Benjamin, Kenny Shapiro, Ruthie Silverman,
>>> Leslie Howard, Dan Locke and the other registrars! I will point out that
>>> this is a violation of the HCO PL "PTS Personnel and Finance", not to
>>> mention that it is an insane act!
>>> Jimmy Williams blew staff later, owing Scientology THOUSANDS of dollars
>>> from his commissions collected on BOGUS sales of Hubbard's worthless books.
I wrote this fellow up as soon as I discovered he was falsifying
book sales. In fact, it was due to my investigation with the help
of another staff member named Mike, that we PROVED Jimmy was falsifying
sales invoices and collection thousands of dollars in commissions on
the phony sales.
Several of us had to go over EVERY book sale invoice written by Jimmy
over a period of several months. Some of the staff who had to do this
(tremendously "Dev-T" project) were Jeanette Vigue Douglas (married
to Jim Douglas of the USGO), Marie Espinosa (Mark Rost's mother),
Mary Bievenour (married Mike Bievenour, the Treasury Sec AOLA)
and Jerry McNeely (the former Assistant Guardian Finance Greater
(Note: Jerry, whose full name is Gerald Wayne McNeely, is still in
Scientology, married to Linda Mazer McNeely, former Flag Rep ASHO.
Jerry and Linda live in Clearwater last I knew, which was May of
1997. I saw him on Cleveland Avenue on May 8th, 1997, headed towards
the CW Bank Building. The McNeelys are listed as Patrons of the IAS.)
Anyway, Jimmy Williams got "sec checked" and was ordered to repay
the money he had embezzled from ASHO. He blew to Boston, Massachusetts
and lived on Boudoin (sp?) Street in the early 80s. I have a few
letters from his roommate from the time period he lived there.
>>> When I was in the Sea Org I knew another executive and "OT" named
>>> Richard. Through falsifying refund/repayment claims, Richard embezzled
>>> thousands of dollars from Scientology. Scientology management, upon
>>> discovering Richard's crimes, lied to the staff about the true reason
>>> for his SP declare.
In Richard Deere's case, I suspected he was doing something illegal
at the time he was embezzling money, but I had no proof or even
I do recall a day when he came hurriedly into my office showing me
a telex (apparently from the Claims Verification Board World Wide)
giving approval to pay a person a huge refund. At the time I felt
that it was _very odd_ that he wanted me to make the refund check
payable to "cash". This was unusual, but Richard stated he "had to
go to the bank and quickly purchase a cashier's check before the
person 'flapped'" (went to the press) with his story.
I got the feeling Richard was lying, but I dismissed my "knowingness"
as unfounded suspicion. After all, he *was* the Assistant Guardian!
Who was I to question his order?
So, with regards to Richard Deere, I had no proof of a crime. But i
most certainly would have written a "knowledge report" if I had had
any evidence to validate my suspicion.
Later on, the staff were told Deere was "declared SP for crimes at
the USGO while he had been Dir Pers Int US".
*That* was another one of Scientology's many lies, as can be shown
by this excerpt from a telex to PAC from Sea Org Management Aide
(at Flag) Lt. Commander Ingeborg Steinberg, authorized by AVC Auth
CW, dated 22 June 1982.
Here's what the telex says on page 5, paragraph 3 about Richard Deere.
My comments are in brackets.
"...HIS EXPULSION AT FIRST WAS KEPT SECRET DUE TO THE EMBEZZLEMENT
DATA. THEN SUPPOSEDLY A GROUP ENGRAM [SESSION] WAS RUN DURING A
1981 FLAG MSN [(MISSION)] TO ASHO D, BUT THE DATA WAS STILL KEPT
SECRET = IT NEVER WAS HONESTLY BROUGHT OUT INTO THE OPEN, AND
LASTLY EVEN THOUGH IT WAS STATED THAT THE DECLARE WAS BROADLY ISSUED,
NONE OF THE KEY REG [(REGISTRAR)] TERMINALS AT ASHO D HAD EVER SEEN IT"
Page 7, paragraph 10 of the telex says:
"RE-ISSUE (AND REVISE, SO IT TELLS THE TRUTH, IF NEEDED) THE RICHARD
DEERE DECLARE AND GET A COPY TO EACH ASHO D AND F [(DAY AND FOUNDATION)]
So, wgert -- any more questions?
>>> I am not impressed with the "OTs" I have known, as many of them
>>> were criminals. I can post more info on other criminals in Scientology
>>> and criminal acts by Scientologists.
>>> Just say the word...
>>> Warrior - who is not and never was "OT"
>>Honesty cures scientology, but lions lie with lambs only after
>>both have fed on heroes and shepherds.
I have previously talked about some of the above incidents. You may
read about them, and others at: